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 Almost done! Help!!!

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littlledevil696
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PostSubject: Almost done! Help!!!   Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:44 am

So i almost have my ka-t done i just need to tune with my safc. One problem... the car won't start!
Here are the symtoms:
no crank
tach "dances" with key on
no sound from speakers
vehicle has not run since september

Heres what i've done:
replaced battery
all fuses good
battery was relocated to rear and previously started the vehicle in september
rechecked grounds and cleaned
starter was bench tested and has 12v when installed
all relays good
safc wiring was checked, rechecked uninstalled and reinstalled
ecu flashes 11 for maf and 12 for cam position sensor
i have gone through every plug and found its home
wiggle tested everything i can think of
fuel pump does turn on

I have checked everything i don't know how many times and spent a solid 12 hours at least working on it not to mention hours searching forums. I fear itmay be my ecu but the fact it gives me codes leads me to believe its not. I am almost defeated and need any ideas from anyone outside of the box i'm in.
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600SX
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PostSubject: Re: Almost done! Help!!!   Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:52 am

No crank is not a computer issue. Check your wiring, starter, battery, etc.

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littlledevil696
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PostSubject: Re: Almost done! Help!!!   Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:13 am

The battery was load tested and replaced, the starter was bench tested and found with no fault, there is 12v going to the starter as well as correct source voltage from the ignition wires. All fuses and relays have been checked with none needing replacement. I have exhausted the KISS theory and I checked the basics.
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SuspectHonda
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PostSubject: Re: Almost done! Help!!!   Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:29 am

Does the starter make any effort to turn the engine over or make any sound at all? I know you said it has correct source voltage but you could try jumping the starter with a push button start just to see if anything happens. The tach dancing sounds like a ground issue.
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93sapphirecoupe
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PostSubject: Re: Almost done! Help!!!   Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:56 am

clutch switch? you need to check the solenoid signal wire to see if its getting the signal. not just the voltage at the starter cable.
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600SX
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PostSubject: Re: Almost done! Help!!!   Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:34 am

You are overlooking something small, just take a break and it'll come to you.

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Riggle
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PostSubject: Re: Almost done! Help!!!   Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:49 am

Starter solenoid. First place i would look. 12v signal with key in start position. Is it even hooked up to the correct terminal? There are a few of them there post wise, know which one is S? Its a starter/battery/wiring issue as previously stated. Nothing to do with sensors or ecu..


Last edited by Riggle on Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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240sxguy
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PostSubject: Re: Almost done! Help!!!   Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:18 pm

Sounds to me like you aren't well grounded if the tach is freaking out. Try running a good thick ground strap from one of the starter bolts to either the frame, battery or both.
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littlledevil696
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PostSubject: Re: Almost done! Help!!!   Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:58 pm

Thanks for everyones input! I'm taking 600sx advice and taking the night off but I'll take everything you have all said in to consideration when I hit it tomorrow. Seeing a few things pop up consecutively is confirming some ideas i had. I will let everyone know when this is figured out.
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240sxguy
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PostSubject: Re: Almost done! Help!!!   Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:03 pm

Taking a night off is the best advice at this point if you are stuck. If you have a meter (and it seems you do) when you get back to it go ahead and check resistance from your - battery post to the engine block or starter. There should be very little resistance there. This is faster than rigging up a ground strap etc.. for elimination purposes.
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Riggle
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PostSubject: Re: Almost done! Help!!!   Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:16 pm

I'm actually going to propose a slight modification to the above. You are 100% on track 240sxguy, but measuring resistance is sometimes misleading because you can have 100 strands of copper in a wire, but have 99 of them disconnected due to resistance/corrosion, leaving 1 connected. Your meter will read next to no resistance because it is technically connected still.

The modification you should be doing to the above test is doing a voltage drop test. So leave your meter on volts, check from the battery positive to the starter, there should no little to no drop. It should read 0.02ish or less.

What you are doing is testing the difference in potential from one area to the next, so logically thinking, it should be the same all over if there is no resistance (which is what we are testing for).

Didn't mean to get all technical, but you should be doing voltage drop tests across all of your circuits, not resistance measurements.

Also, voltage drops are always measured in a parallel fashion. If your meter reads 12V or 10V, then there is a 12v difference from where you have one meter lead to another. Which means huge resistance, the bigger the number, the worse it is.

Hope that helps!
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240sxguy
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PostSubject: Re: Almost done! Help!!!   Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:20 pm

^ What he said.

I am guessing if you are getting absolutely no action from the starter you have a very poor ground. This happened on a friends eclipse one time and his throttle cable started smoking! Whoops!
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thefreack
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PostSubject: Re: Almost done! Help!!!   Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:15 pm

93sapphirecoupe wrote:
clutch switch? you need to check the solenoid signal wire to see if its getting the signal. not just the voltage at the starter cable.

this is also a valid possible problem. if that switch is failing or disconnected you will get no response from the starter when turning the key. everything else will come on but it will seem like your starter is dead. so check that too.
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s13.240sx
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PostSubject: Re: Almost done! Help!!!   Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:28 pm

Also along with the clutch switch make sure the little plastic button on the arm has not fallen off causing the safety switch to not be pressed.
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Riggle
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PostSubject: Re: Almost done! Help!!!   Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:01 pm

Or just cut them both and twist them together forever bypassing that switch....
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littlledevil696
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PostSubject: Re: Almost done! Help!!!   Thu May 03, 2012 4:30 pm

So after about 15 min of rechecking the basics I started by running my ground from the battery to the starter bolt on the trans and used a jumper to send the 12v signal to the starter and she cranked. I ran my battery ground to the original ground on the intake manifold and got her started! After this excitement I noticed i still had electrical issues with gauges, radio, etc. I remembered that the original ground also went to the battery so I ran another ground to the body and BAM! Problem solved. Now i just get to explore the wonderful world of safc. This has proven to be extremely frustrating with most outlets pointing towards standalone. At least she runs! Thank you for everyones input.
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s13.240sx
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PostSubject: Re: Almost done! Help!!!   Thu May 03, 2012 5:31 pm

Glad you got it started! Modified cars are a Blasty-Blast!
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600SX
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PostSubject: Re: Almost done! Help!!!   Thu May 03, 2012 6:05 pm

littlledevil696 wrote:
So after about 15 min of rechecking the basics I started by running my ground from the battery to the starter bolt on the trans and used a jumper to send the 12v signal to the starter and she cranked. I ran my battery ground to the original ground on the intake manifold and got her started! After this excitement I noticed i still had electrical issues with gauges, radio, etc. I remembered that the original ground also went to the battery so I ran another ground to the body and BAM! Problem solved. Now i just get to explore the wonderful world of safc. This has proven to be extremely frustrating with most outlets pointing towards standalone. At least she runs! Thank you for everyones input.

Glad to hear it's up and running! See, sometimes you just need to step back, take a breath and go over the basics. I told you it'd be something easy!! Razz

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240sxguy
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PostSubject: Re: Almost done! Help!!!   Thu May 03, 2012 7:35 pm

Most of the time when people come to me with electrical problems, it's a grounding issue. Keep that in mind in the future because they can be more tricky to find.

Congratulations!
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93sapphirecoupe
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PostSubject: Re: Almost done! Help!!!   Fri May 04, 2012 12:17 am

most of the time when people relocate the battery, THATS their problem. good job on working through it though!
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