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Flicktitty
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PostSubject: The E85 Thread.    Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:11 pm

Is anyone running it on here? Or considering running it? seems to be a great bang for the buck, for those who don't know what the benefits of E85 is, here is some good reading for you.

E85 Wikipedia
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This is quoted from Import Tuner
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E85 Vs Conventional Gasoline - Tech Knowledge
Ethanol + Tune = 66.9 WHP And 72.8 Torque?!
From the April, 2009 issue of Import Tuner
By Scott Tsuneishi
Photography by Scott Tsuneishi

This Ain't Your Daddy's Moonshine
For years now, scientists have warned of global warming and the harmful effects caused by automotive emissions being pumped into our atmosphere on a daily basis. Combined with an ever-growing urgency to reduce our foreign oil addiction, the government has begun funding corporate America to promote the development and distribution of a cleaner-burning, domestically produced, ethanol-based alternative, known today as E85. Comprised of roughly 85 percent denaturated alcohol-made by fermenting and distilling starch crops such as corn (one acre of which, can be processed into about 330 gallons of combustible ethanol)-high-concentration ethanol fuels like E85 have been slow to catch on stateside. But countries like Sweden and Brazil have been producing ethanol fuels for a number of years from locally grown corn and sugar cane, as an answer to their countries' limited supply of oil.

Now, before you assume ethanol-blended fuel to be exotic, know that your car is probably already burning it; about one-third of all gasoline sold in the United States contains some blend of ethanol, typically up to 10 percent by volume (depending on area), and roadside pumps that offer full E85 sell it, and all its octane benefits, for about the price of premium gasoline.

E85 VS. Conventional Gasoline
While the supply and demand of E85 remain low, due to its sparse availability, a handful of automotive enthusiasts hasn't been deterred from exploring its benefits; specifically, that E85 has an octane rating-or the industry standard known as Research Octane Number (RON)-approaching 105; a significant jump from your typical 93-octane premium pump gas, but for about the same price. This higher octane rating allows performance enthusiasts to broaden their tuning capabilities, thus increasing power and reducing the chance of detonation with high compression or boosted applications, with the use of an alternative fuel. And E85 burns cleaner; a cup of standard gasoline set on fire will billow a thick plume of black soot. But a cup of Everclear 190 proof alcohol (95% ethanol and 4.4% water) will burn cleaner, without a trace of black smoke.
E85 Vs Conventional Gasoline Tech Knowledge Gas Pic1
E85 Vs Conventional Gasoline Tech Knowledge Evo Pic1
E85 Vs Conventional Gasoline Tech Knowledge Gas Evo Pic1

The Pros And Cons Of Using E85
Pros
Compared to gasoline, here's a quick overview of what we like about E85:

1 The higher autoignition temperature of Ethanol (689 degrees F, compared to gasoline's 475 degrees F) enables E85 to be more knock-resistant and handle more boost or higher compression.

2 E85 initiates a cooler intake charge, allowing for higher boost pressure.

3 E85 is less volatile than gasoline or low-volume ethanol blends, which results in fewer evaporative emissions. Using E85 also reduces carbon monoxide emissions and provides significant reductions in emissions of many harmful toxins, including benzene, a known human carcinogen.

4 E85's higher resistance to detonation (autoignition) allows tuners to implement more aggressive ignition timing, for improved combustion efficiency.

5 Depending on tuner and engine, a slightly leaner air-fuel ratio (AFR) under partial and wide-open throttle (WOT) can be implemented, helping to increase fuel mileage.

6 The cleaner-burning fuel will minimize residual carbon deposits on intake valves, combustion chambers, and other internal components.

7 At government-subsidized prices, E85 can actually be cheaper to run than gasoline, especially compared to high-octane race gas.
E85 Vs Conventional Gasoline Tech Knowledge Evo Motor
E85 Vs Conventional Gasoline Tech Knowledge Evo Pic2
On it's first set of runs...

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E85 Vs Conventional Gasoline Tech Knowledge Evo Pic2
On it's first set of runs using E85, Church made minor modification to the EVO VIII and gained 20 hp more than he could with gasoline. This is due to the higher energy content of ethanol at the proper air-fuel ratio (ethanol contains fewer BTU/lb than gasoline, but more of it per pound of air has to be used, meaning a net increase in energy). Next, Church advanced the timing between three and five degrees, and picked up another 15 hp. Then, he started turning up the boost; we couldn't get much more top-end power from the stock EVO IX turbo, but the mid-range came up nicely from an additional 4-5 psi of boost.
E85 Vs Conventional Gasoline Tech Knowledge Evo Part1
The vehicle's ECU was swapped...

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E85 Vs Conventional Gasoline Tech Knowledge Evo Part1
The vehicle's ECU was swapped to an AEM EMS unit to tackle the switch to E85. Shawn Church states that with E85, the AEM EMS was the ideal fuel management system as it offered an easier time to tune speed/density.

Cons
Converting your vehicle to run on E85 requires commitment and knowledge of proper fuel management tuning. Although the costs of converting a vehicle are relatively low, we found some issues that came up with using E85.

1 At 9.76:1, E85 has a different stoichiometric AFR than gasoline (14.7:1), and requires fuel/timing maps be converted to compensate. We won't go into details with Lambda or stoichiometric values but make sure your tuner is well aware of these changes.

2 E85 requires the use of 40 to 50 percent larger fuel injectors, to compensate for its 40-45 percent increase in fuel demand. The change in stoichiometric AFR from 14.7:1 with gasoline to 9.76:1 with E85 is 66 percent, but the resulting flow needed is only 40 percent greater, due to E85's higher density than gasoline; your vehicle's check engine light (CEL) may flash a "lean condition" code, resultant of this.

3 An aftermarket fuel management system will expand the parameters needed to tune the vehicle to accept the new E85 purging through its system. The car will not run properly on E85 with a factory ECU.

4 Cold starts can become an issue for those who use E85. As we experienced with our test EVO, it took more than a minute to finally get the engine to crank over. This can be a problem for those who live in colder climate areas, but in sunny California, we don't see this as a major concern. To remedy this problem, you can increase the percentage of standard gasoline used in mixture with E85 to initiate cold starts.

5 Since cars running E85 require more fuel, a tank of E85 will not run as far as a tank of gasoline, and more frequent refueling will be needed. Properly tuned, E85-burning cars will range only 80 percent as far as those burning conventional gasoline.

6 Playing with ethanol-to-gasoline mixtures or periodically switching from gasoline to E85 requires changes in fuel pressures. Switching over isn't a simple run-to-the-pump-and-fill scenario

7 Although E85 is not a corrosive material, ethanol has been known to damage certain rubber, seals, and internal engine components. Most vehicles produced prior to 1987 are not compatible with the chemical composition of E85, and some retrofitting of fuel lines, pumps, and vacuum hose may be needed, depending on vehicle.

Converting a vehicle to run E85 could be done in a day's time, by simply draining fuel, changing injectors and tuning. Bigger injectors, a good fuel pump, and E85 are nearly all that is needed. Everything else can be done in the ECU. Shawn Church, owner of Church Automotive and tuner of our E85-powered EVO VIII test vehicle, prefers to tune E85 with a good standalone engine management system, like the AEM EMS. "I'd say that if you have a regular source for E85 available, it's a hell of a good deal; cheaper than gas-especially race gas-and excellent performance. And the owner of this EVO VIII is averaging 16-17 mpg in the city on E85, so the drop-off in economy isn't that noticeable."
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Popular hot rodding article on E85 Vs. Pump gas
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Vette web article about converting a new C6 Corvette to run on E85
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PostSubject: Re: The E85 Thread.    Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:04 am

Its pretty high on my priority list right now.
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PostSubject: Re: The E85 Thread.    Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:27 am

nice work nick! i see you sent this to ryan too.

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PostSubject: Re: The E85 Thread.    Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:45 am

240sxguy wrote:
Its pretty high on my priority list right now.
Yeah buddy. let me know how it all works out of you.

Lizmo wrote:
nice work nick! i see you sent this to ryan too.
yeah, i sent it to him and some too you.
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PostSubject: Re: The E85 Thread.    Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:48 am

What would ryan put e85 in???
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PostSubject: Re: The E85 Thread.    Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:42 pm

hopes and dreams.
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PostSubject: Re: The E85 Thread.    Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:41 am

LOL
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PostSubject: Re: The E85 Thread.    Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:18 pm

The cost is still too high to equal out the lower mpg you get with e85. This was a fuel everyone hyped the shit out of but it never really caught on. You do however have more power potential, but it's not as easy to find as gas. Just my .02.

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PostSubject: Re: The E85 Thread.    Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:46 am

if things go good im gonna be doing this to a 240sx i might trade for... hope for the best... ive done my research on this and seems quite easy and low cost
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PostSubject: Re: The E85 Thread.    Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:11 am

there are some things that will come up that you may have not figured out, are you doing this with a relatively stock Ka24? or you doing this on something that will be turboed?

what size injectors and fuel stuff do you plan on using? I'm assuming you should be ok with using the existing fuel lines, cause i don't believe you'll be maxing them out anytime soon.
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PostSubject: Re: The E85 Thread.    Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:26 pm

for me i will be running sr20det injectors and have a safc,wideband to tune the air flow better... from what ive read 90% or s13 fuel lines have hard lines so i dont really need to worry about them getting messed up... also if i run into the 68mph open loop problem, ill just buy a 12pack and go to my cousins house to have him try to reprogram the ecu... all this has to wait until i get some cash though...
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PostSubject: Re: The E85 Thread.    Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:39 pm

Flicktitty wrote:
hopes and dreams.



WIN!!!

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PostSubject: Re: The E85 Thread.    Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:09 pm

My problem is the AMOUNT of E85 you have to run.....If I go on a trip up North or wherever, I dont like to have to be filling up all the time....Plus finding it is not always easy.
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PostSubject: Re: The E85 Thread.    Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:22 pm

yeah, the amount it burns is kind of excessive, but seems the further you go up north the more available it is.

I'm surprised how "rare" it still is around the Milwaukee metro area. Chicago has a ton of places that sell E85. Rockford is the same, seems even Madison is catching on the E85 train. just not Milwaukee.... yet?
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PostSubject: Re: The E85 Thread.    Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:25 am

Flicktitty wrote:
yeah, the amount it burns is kind of excessive, but seems the further you go up north the more available it is.

I'm surprised how "rare" it still is around the Milwaukee metro area. Chicago has a ton of places that sell E85.
Rockford is the same, seems even Madison is catching on the E85 train. just not Milwaukee.... yet?

Hell the new Kwik Trip in Elkhorn has E85. When I saw that I was very suprised. I don't think I've ever seen a place up here that sells it. Granted I don't drive around looking for it either.
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PostSubject: Re: The E85 Thread.    Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:32 am

flyin_blue_egg wrote:
Flicktitty wrote:
yeah, the amount it burns is kind of excessive, but seems the further you go up north the more available it is.

I'm surprised how "rare" it still is around the Milwaukee metro area. Chicago has a ton of places that sell E85.
Rockford is the same, seems even Madison is catching on the E85 train. just not Milwaukee.... yet?

. Granted I don't drive around looking for it either.

Start.

theres a place right by liz's house that has it.
there is a spot on 164? in Waukesaha that has it. and one on 91st and brown deer in Milwaukee. and i heard about some by the airport.
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PostSubject: Re: The E85 Thread.    Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:10 pm

there is a flexfuel gas station where im from... also our kwiktrip has them here
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PostSubject: Re: The E85 Thread.    Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:09 pm

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Check it out. I don't know if its been updated lately, but it shows six stations in Milwaukee that has it from this list alone. Gives you the address also. All you gotta do is call and ask. =)

EDIT: "In Wisconsin, you'll find 92 local gas stations in 74 cities that you can fill up your Flex Fuel vehicle with E85 Ethanol. Below you'll find a handy list of these E85 pumps, as well as links to more information on alternative fuels."

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Another site.

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This guy explains how he converted his explorer.
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PostSubject: Re: The E85 Thread.    Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:17 am

Flicktitty wrote:
flyin_blue_egg wrote:
Flicktitty wrote:
yeah, the amount it burns is kind of excessive, but seems the further you go up north the more available it is.

I'm surprised how "rare" it still is around the Milwaukee metro area. Chicago has a ton of places that sell E85.
Rockford is the same, seems even Madison is catching on the E85 train. just not Milwaukee.... yet?

. Granted I don't drive around looking for it either.

Start.

theres a place right by liz's house that has it.
there is a spot on 164? in Waukesaha that has it. and one on 91st and brown deer in Milwaukee. and i heard about some by the airport.

I have no reason to..I don't run e85 nor do i plan on ever running it.
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PostSubject: Re: The E85 Thread.    Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:24 am

^^ +1

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